Comments on: Rabbath versus Simandl – a comparative study

By: David B Teagie

David B Teagie — Mon, 05 Sep 2011 00:54:48 +0000

This is my personal experience. I began with Simandl. This bloody awful set of tuneless exercises left me frightened of anything beyond keys closely related to C major and any position beyond first.

Years later, I found a Suzuki teacher who was willing to take me on, and I flourished. The only materials available at the time were for the cello. So I adapted. Then happily I discovered the Rabbath books and learned pivoting, poorly, until I discovered playing with a drone appropriate to the key. Suddenly I could HEAR it when I didn’t reach far enough, or reached too far. I worked through the 1st 3 Suzuki cello books, then discovered George Vance’s materials, while they were still in the six 8.5×11 comb bound booklets. This was a revelation.

All this came to fruition when in 2004 I switched to 5ths tuning, and everything fell into place. The instrument was wonderfully resonant. The 124 fingering for whole step-half step sequence, and 134 for a half step-whole step sequence was both natural and essential to my technique for fifths playing.

The upshot is that I believe in Rabbath’s and Vance’s work. Incidentally, Vance’s work was supposed to be the “Washington Suzuki Bass project” but Suzuki politics prevented that from happening. Dan Swaim did a wonderful job putting together the Suzuki bass books. They are progressive in the same way all the other Suzuki books are, actually more so than Vance’s work. Vance’s work carries the student much further than the published Suzuki books do (V1,2,3,4).

By: Jonathan Cable

Jonathan Cable — Sat, 09 Jul 2011 01:42:19 +0000

I’ve actually gone in the other direction. Instead of going from Simandl towards what is there today, I’ve gone from Simandl to what was there was before him, and ended up with … Wenzl Hause. The second part of his method is a series of 90 Etüdes. I know, 90 is a number that scares everybody – but most of them are not longer than half a page? In four or five lines, each of these studies addresses several technical aspects, without brow-beating and without the usual belaboring the point, like Caimmi does in each of his studies… Why these Hause studies are not on every bass player’s music stand and why they are not a staple of every bass curriculum is a mystery to me!
As far as Simandl is concerned, I went through all of that when I was a student, and I loved the method, perhaps because I had a really good teacher that was able to get it across in a perfectly positive way. I was never bored to tears, that’s all I can say.

By: Robin Ruscio

Robin Ruscio — Mon, 13 Jun 2011 21:41:37 +0000

This exactly how I am now teaching- Vance to get em going and learning musicality, Simandl to clean things up later. I had a huge fear of thumb after starting in Simandl for years myself and it’s great to see how quickly students integrate all positions after working in Vance/rabbath.

By: Jason Heath’s Double Bass Blog » Blog Archive » Quality materials covering thumb position?

Tue, 09 Nov 2010 12:01:17 +0000

[...] out some older blog threads about this topic if you [...]

By: Rabbath versus Simandl continued : Jason Heath’s Double Bass Blog

Rabbath versus Simandl continued : Jason Heath’s Double Bass Blog — Thu, 19 Aug 2010 11:01:35 +0000

[...] original post can be found here, and a quite articulate follow-up post from double bassist John Tuck is a must-read as well. [...]

By: Charles Gambetta

Charles Gambetta — Fri, 13 Aug 2010 14:22:50 +0000

I am a conductor, composer and double bassist with an active performing and teaching career. While I have been a bass teacher for 37 years, I have never allowed my thinking about the bass to stand still. This curiosity moved me to spend most of my 45 years on the bass experimenting with and analysing every approach or system I came across. I believe the result of this journey is a synthetic approach that combines the strongest elements of each set of practices into a cohesive yet open architecture that consistently produces rapid progress for my students… and now their students as well.

The author correctly points out that the “traditional” position labeling system (Simandl) is difficult to remember and offers little in the way of context that would help students make sense of either the geography/topography of the fingerboard and the locations of pitches on the strings. I still have to work to remember it after all these years. Rabbath’s reduction to 6 positions is defintely a step in the right direction and begs the question: Can we make additional improvements?

As I write this post, I am in the middle of composing an article on a fresh look at the double bass fingerboard that includes a system for labeling positions that is simple, logical and descriptive. In other words, the labeling actually supports the students’ decision making process with respect to shifting and fingerings as it confirms the location of pitches on each string.

I will return to add information when I complete the article.

By: Michael Schneider

Michael Schneider — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 22:23:43 +0000

Many, too many bassists do their job because they learned by Simandl and their stupid teachers. In the end they all do not know the fingerboaerd at all, nothing about flageolets, except, where ” Simandl ” teaches them to play.
One exammple: I show a bass-pupil the many possibilities of a certain fingering and tell him: look at me,how happy I am with this fingering.
I want to have fun also, was his answer. Nor me or somebody else in the world would be inspired by Simandl in that way. This is Rabbath, the rest is: by learning the Rabbath technique I know to play Simandl a hundred times better ………..
Rabbath is liberation of old minded teachers and players. My ceolleagues ignore everything what I am doing , because they would have to admit, that they learned a lot of ****. And it really is hard to accept this. So all Germany goes on like before. This is the problem, not Rabbath.
Michael Schneider from Heidelberg, Germany

By: Jeff Holsen

Jeff Holsen — Wed, 22 Apr 2009 05:42:59 +0000

Hey Jason and everyone,
Each method seems ‘integral’ in it’s own way.
On another note. I remember David Walter’s book “The Melodious Bass” as being full of great tunes. Unfortunately it is also impossible to find. It was not a method per se but was a great collection of fun stuff for students to play! I’m on a quest to find it. Sure wish it would be reprinted!!

By: One Finger One Fret | The Bass Guitar Blog

One Finger One Fret | The Bass Guitar Blog — Thu, 05 Feb 2009 23:40:06 +0000

[...] There is much more than that to the Simandl method. It includes some things which would sound wild even for those familiar with the likes of Victor Wooten – like using the thumb in the highest positions – but that will do for now! You might also want to check out the Rabbath method, which has applicability on eletric bass too, especially fretless (see Rabbath versus Simandl). [...]

By: Matt

Matt — Sat, 16 Aug 2008 04:18:56 +0000

Hi Jason, I was just wondering, has your opinion of the Rabbath technique changed since you had a lesson with Sturm? Surely you have found out that the books have been edited by Leduc(Rabbath calls them “stupid”) and are best used with a very competent teacher. I could never imagine learning a quarter from the books about the Rabbath technique as I have learned from my teacher. Especially about the movement of the pivot.