When are Jeremy, Jude, Jonah, et al. going to weigh in?

I’ve been following this thread with growing amusement. I like the astronaut analogy, at least for here in the US. Jason made an observation about the seemingly different perspectives from Europe. Perhaps in Europe there are more possibilities for someone to have a career as a soloist, although bass recitals are probably about as interesting to the general public, wherever you go. Denigrating orchestra players has been going on at least since I was a student.

I would be very surprised if the ones calling other people ‘little heads’ and so on would have the courage to put their names on those sorts of comments. Diversity of opinions is a great thing but, while I’ve gotten more than a few laughs from all this, putting other people down is kind of a drag.

P.S.

Everybody know apples are best!!!!!! You’re clueless boobs if you say otherwise!!!!!

I think that it takes a tremendous amount of skill to play really well in a bass section. I also think that it takes just as much skill to play really well in a jazz context.

I also agree that the aforementioned soloists are changing and expanding the role of the double bass. Like you, Jacque, I don’t see orchestra playing and solo playing as mutually exclusive, with one being superior to the other.

Isn’t it possible to have great solo bass playing and great orchestral bass paying without one necessarily being a superior form of expression than the other? Like you said, Jacque, it’s like oranges battling apples for best all-time fruit.

Jason, you should *consider* prohibiting anonymous comments.

2) To say that one kind of playing is better than another or harder or more rewarding?? Are you saying the Gravenstein is a better tasting orange than a Comice? It takes a lot of skill to play well in a section. There are a lot of solo players who sound like crap in a section, because they haven’t developed that skill. There are a lot of section players who sound like crap playing solos, because they haven’t developed that skill.

Or to put it another way: Ron Carter and Rufus Reid are great players, just as are Gary Karr and Daniel Marillier. And so are Eugene Levinson, and Barry Guy. But if Gary Karr tried to sound like Barry Guy, or Rufus Reid did a Joelle Leandre impersonation . . . well, it wouldn’t be great.

3) There are sounds that are made by soloists, sounds that are made by ensembles, and sounds that are made by great big orchestras. I don’t care what you say, no soloist, no matter how great, is ever going to make the kind of sound that the Chicago Symphony Orchestra makes playing *Also Sprach Zarathustra*. And the CSO will never sound like Dave Holland unaccompanied. This is not a problem! But to make a sound like a big Strauss tone poem, you have to be a section player. And to play solo, you have to be a soloist.

We make choices, we are offered opportunities, we are denied opportunities. Life does this to us, and we find our joy in the things in which we find joy. Anyone who degrades the joy of another person, deserves no joy himself for his arrogance and selfishness.

4) Enough with comparing Brahms and Bottesini or whatever. There are great players who can make a single note sing. There are fantastically written pieces of music that can sound terrible played by a person who doesn’t have the understanding, feeling or skill to play them. Don’t worry about whether this piece of music is better than that one — you’re worrying about the wrong things.

I am personally most impressed by people who are able to balance their musical life with orchestral, solo and chamber music performance as well as teaching. These are the people who don’t LIMIT themselves by calling themselves “soloist” or “orchestra player”.
If a person has the talent and skill to play solos on the bass, that doesn’t mean he is a “soloist.” As far as a career, it is about as reasonable to pursue the title of astronaut as “bass soloist”

What do you call someone who cannot win an orchestra audition?

Soloist.