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	<title>Comments on: Wisconsin Chamber Orchestra &#8211; unfair labor practices at every turn</title>
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		<title>By: Andrew Anderson</title>
		<link>http://doublebassblog.org/2009/03/wisconsin-chamber-orchestra-unfair-labor-practices-at-every-turn.html/comment-page-1#comment-11718</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Mar 2009 06:53:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://doublebassblog.org/2009/03/wisconsin-chamber-orchestra-unfair-labor-practices-at-every-turn.html#comment-11718</guid>
		<description>What field do you work in &quot;Joe Arts Patron&quot;?

You seem to have misunderstood the musicians&#039; complaint.  They are arguing for more work, not less.  The management has REDUCED the number of services while the musicians are asking for enough work to have a sustainable income.

I don&#039;t know what field you work in, but I would like you to imagine what would happen if your employer cut you to only working ten hours per week and only one week per month.  (Oh and by the way, unlike the autoworkers union, that means your salary goes down...)  You would have to find another job to pay your mortgage (Not to mention the tanks of gas you used commuting 4 times for that 10 hours of work!)

In fact your statement about the &quot;Real World&quot; being one where businesses fail when they do stuff like this is exactly Jason&#039;s point!  And just like in any other field when management is incompetent it hurts all of the people under them.  This is why Jason suggested this as a case study to compare with a successful organization like the CSO.  The point is not to whine about how hard it is to make it in the music industry.  The point is to learn from the success of those arts organizations that are thriving.  (Last I checked the CSO pays its musicians well... that may have something to do with their success...)



What the management is telling them is &quot;Take a Hike&quot;. The orchestra may winding up doing that...it&#039;s called a STRIKE.

Management may continue to have an orchestra, but it will be comprised of incompetent amateurs because the professionals will find work that does pay the mortgage.

Most employers dream of having workers that desire more work.  Most would be delighted if they could get world class talent to spend thousands of unpaid hours working at home before commuting hundreds of miles at their own expense to work for two or three paid hours.

The &quot;Manager&quot; that cannot succeed in channeling this kind of initiative into financial success (and INCOME)does not deserve the title.

If this orchestra doesn&#039;t agree to give them enough work to survive as individuals, the orchestra as an organization will fail as all poor business models should.

Your Darwinian business instincts work against management as well as musicians.  In this case the Musicians are simply asking for more straw with which to make their bricks and Management is playing Pharaoh to a tee demanding that they find it themselves and produce just as well.  It didn&#039;t turn out well for him, and it won&#039;t for the WCO either.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What field do you work in &#8220;Joe Arts Patron&#8221;?</p>
<p>You seem to have misunderstood the musicians&#8217; complaint.  They are arguing for more work, not less.  The management has REDUCED the number of services while the musicians are asking for enough work to have a sustainable income.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know what field you work in, but I would like you to imagine what would happen if your employer cut you to only working ten hours per week and only one week per month.  (Oh and by the way, unlike the autoworkers union, that means your salary goes down&#8230;)  You would have to find another job to pay your mortgage (Not to mention the tanks of gas you used commuting 4 times for that 10 hours of work!)</p>
<p>In fact your statement about the &#8220;Real World&#8221; being one where businesses fail when they do stuff like this is exactly Jason&#8217;s point!  And just like in any other field when management is incompetent it hurts all of the people under them.  This is why Jason suggested this as a case study to compare with a successful organization like the CSO.  The point is not to whine about how hard it is to make it in the music industry.  The point is to learn from the success of those arts organizations that are thriving.  (Last I checked the CSO pays its musicians well&#8230; that may have something to do with their success&#8230;)</p>
<p>What the management is telling them is &#8220;Take a Hike&#8221;. The orchestra may winding up doing that&#8230;it&#8217;s called a STRIKE.</p>
<p>Management may continue to have an orchestra, but it will be comprised of incompetent amateurs because the professionals will find work that does pay the mortgage.</p>
<p>Most employers dream of having workers that desire more work.  Most would be delighted if they could get world class talent to spend thousands of unpaid hours working at home before commuting hundreds of miles at their own expense to work for two or three paid hours.</p>
<p>The &#8220;Manager&#8221; that cannot succeed in channeling this kind of initiative into financial success (and INCOME)does not deserve the title.</p>
<p>If this orchestra doesn&#8217;t agree to give them enough work to survive as individuals, the orchestra as an organization will fail as all poor business models should.</p>
<p>Your Darwinian business instincts work against management as well as musicians.  In this case the Musicians are simply asking for more straw with which to make their bricks and Management is playing Pharaoh to a tee demanding that they find it themselves and produce just as well.  It didn&#8217;t turn out well for him, and it won&#8217;t for the WCO either.</p>
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		<title>By: charliesaurus</title>
		<link>http://doublebassblog.org/2009/03/wisconsin-chamber-orchestra-unfair-labor-practices-at-every-turn.html/comment-page-1#comment-11654</link>
		<dc:creator>charliesaurus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Mar 2009 18:37:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://doublebassblog.org/2009/03/wisconsin-chamber-orchestra-unfair-labor-practices-at-every-turn.html#comment-11654</guid>
		<description>Oh - I just want to let you know...

&quot;I had some nasty blowback from people that I can only assume are in the WCO administration or on the board.&quot;

I&#039;m neither.  I&#039;m just a regular joe arts patron.  I don&#039;t even live in Madison, but I&#039;ve seen the WCO perform a couple of times.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh &#8211; I just want to let you know&#8230;</p>
<p>&#8220;I had some nasty blowback from people that I can only assume are in the WCO administration or on the board.&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;m neither.  I&#8217;m just a regular joe arts patron.  I don&#8217;t even live in Madison, but I&#8217;ve seen the WCO perform a couple of times.</p>
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		<title>By: charliesaurus</title>
		<link>http://doublebassblog.org/2009/03/wisconsin-chamber-orchestra-unfair-labor-practices-at-every-turn.html/comment-page-1#comment-11653</link>
		<dc:creator>charliesaurus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Mar 2009 18:33:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://doublebassblog.org/2009/03/wisconsin-chamber-orchestra-unfair-labor-practices-at-every-turn.html#comment-11653</guid>
		<description>I get it... it&#039;s tought o make a living as a musician... epsecially one working for WCO.

But, I hope you&#039;ll excuse me if I don&#039;t weep for you. It&#039;s hard for everyone... especially now. 

And, in a challenging economy like the one we&#039;re in, here&#039;s the bitter truth — no one &quot;NEEDS&quot; orchestral performances. It&#039;s one area easily cut from a family&#039;s budget.  So - the idea that you&#039;re on strike over showing up for work galls me and my friends.  

I chuckle at the idea of telling my employer - yah, I&#039;m going to show up just 90% of the time.  They&#039;d laugh me out the door -- much less for 80% or 70%. 

So - here&#039;s the bottomline from the real world — If things are THIS bad, quit.  It&#039;s a free country.  Let the organization go under or figure out how to go on without you.

If they can&#039;t find other musicians to fill your seat - then they&#039;ll have to raise their offer.

That&#039;s how things work in the real world where you can&#039;t hide behind union bosses.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I get it&#8230; it&#8217;s tought o make a living as a musician&#8230; epsecially one working for WCO.</p>
<p>But, I hope you&#8217;ll excuse me if I don&#8217;t weep for you. It&#8217;s hard for everyone&#8230; especially now. </p>
<p>And, in a challenging economy like the one we&#8217;re in, here&#8217;s the bitter truth — no one &#8220;NEEDS&#8221; orchestral performances. It&#8217;s one area easily cut from a family&#8217;s budget.  So &#8211; the idea that you&#8217;re on strike over showing up for work galls me and my friends.  </p>
<p>I chuckle at the idea of telling my employer &#8211; yah, I&#8217;m going to show up just 90% of the time.  They&#8217;d laugh me out the door &#8212; much less for 80% or 70%. </p>
<p>So &#8211; here&#8217;s the bottomline from the real world — If things are THIS bad, quit.  It&#8217;s a free country.  Let the organization go under or figure out how to go on without you.</p>
<p>If they can&#8217;t find other musicians to fill your seat &#8211; then they&#8217;ll have to raise their offer.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s how things work in the real world where you can&#8217;t hide behind union bosses.</p>
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		<title>By: Dr. Phillip W. Serna</title>
		<link>http://doublebassblog.org/2009/03/wisconsin-chamber-orchestra-unfair-labor-practices-at-every-turn.html/comment-page-1#comment-10786</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr. Phillip W. Serna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Mar 2009 15:52:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://doublebassblog.org/2009/03/wisconsin-chamber-orchestra-unfair-labor-practices-at-every-turn.html#comment-10786</guid>
		<description>Another example of musicians and their craft being thouroughly undervalued. This is a very dissapointing development. Are members of Madison Symphony &amp; other local arts organizations adding their voices to this issue? If there is local rancor about it from the community, other organizations, the media, etc.  it could have a VERY strong effect a positive outcome. Getting the media to care is a WHOLE other can of worms I guess!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another example of musicians and their craft being thouroughly undervalued. This is a very dissapointing development. Are members of Madison Symphony &amp; other local arts organizations adding their voices to this issue? If there is local rancor about it from the community, other organizations, the media, etc.  it could have a VERY strong effect a positive outcome. Getting the media to care is a WHOLE other can of worms I guess!</p>
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