I get a lot of email… I mean, a lot of email. Though it is sometimes a struggle to answer it in a timely fashion, it is also a continual source of interesting material for the blog, like the following note from Chris Lastovicka:
Low Note Question
Hi Jason,
I’ve just been reading your fantastic blog — your articles are so interesting that I had to make myself stop reading to get back to work! Thanks for your insights and thoughtfulness about the classical music world… Esp. for your exposure of conservatories’ lack of prep for the real world, and your itemizations of the cost of freelancing/teaching etc.
I found your blog because I was looking for the answer to a question. In the piece I’m writing, the double bass part includes low C. Does every professional player have either the extension or a 5-string bass? Would it be insulting to verify, or is it a must to check when we look for a player? Would a bass player appreciate a notation in the score that informs them that the part extends below E?
If you have time to respond, I’d be really grateful. If not, I completely understand!
Best wishes,
Chris Lastovicka
My response
Hi Chris,
Thanks for the message, and thanks for checking out the blog! Much appreciated. It is fairly standard these days for professional double bass players to have an extension, though there is still the occasional player who, for whatever reason, has neither an extension nor a five-string bass. Therefore, I think that it never hurts to ask or to put an indication in the part that a low C is required for the piece–it’s not an insult to the player at all, and you want to make sure that this part is actually going to be executable by the player in question.
At what point is there an extension expectation?
Though bassists typically don’t start their studies on basses with five strings or with extensions, is there a clear point (high school, college, or later) at which it is reasonable to expect that bassists would be equipped with gear capable of reaching the low notes?
It’s a cloudy issue to me. While it would be great if all bassists started on gear with low C capability, it’s rare to see many extensions even on the instruments of serious high school bassists on a path toward music school. Many bassists still don’t have extensions in college or beyond, and while this is not really a problem for jazz-centric bassists, anyone focusing on orchestral playing isn’t really “playing the part” without an extension.
Bassists: when did you first get an extension? When do you think is an appropriate point for an aspiring bassist to get one. Do you (gasp!) still not have one? Let us know!
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I got an extension when our orchestra started rehearsals on a piece where I finally couldn’t bear to be forced to play some wonderful low passages up an octave… I think it was Mahler 4.
I love having the extension, but sometimes having to quickly shift to and from an extension note is painful. I would love to experiment with 5ths tuning and be rid of the extension, but … it’s such a huge step.
I couldn’t go back to playing a bass without a low C now… it’s surprising how often I play in a concert where at least one piece calls on a note below that bottom E.
So, when is an appropriate point to get one? My answer, if you’ll forgive my double negative, is “when you simply can’t not have one”. I simply got to the point where those low notes called to me – and let’s not forget that we are bassists! Those low passages were written for us to fulfil.
I am a college students in my third year studying bass right now. I would love an extension, but up until last semester, I didn’t even have my own instrument. I’d love to have extension, but right now I have my hands full practicing what I can and trying to make rent. Honestly, if I would end up playing in a professional orchestra, I would feel like I’d have to get a better instrument before I get an extension. I love my bass, but I don’t know if it really compares on that level. I think I’d be wasting my money because it’s only a good bass, it’s not spectacular. Does that make any sense?
Another issue is the whether one’s bass (and budget) is appropriate for a 5th string, extension, heavier strings, or buying another instrument.
Buying and transporting one instrument isn’t a practical possibility for me. I’m a D violone and early bass player, with reproduction instruments; my solution has been to re-tune the bass (and re-teach myself) in 5ths for modern gigs. Imagine if mine was a 3-string bass! Occasionally I even re-string the 6-string violone for lower tuning, although I leave the frets on and slightly reposition them for appropriate scale intervals.
I’m a very serious bassist and a junior in high school. I don’t have an extension. I wouldn’t say that extenstions are totally necessary at the high school level. Extensions are expensive, and the bass I play on now will not be the one I will take to college. I plan to upgrade to a nicer bass by the time I go to college. It just wouldnt make much sense to spend the money for an extension on a bass that I won’t be playing for too much longer. When I do upgrade my bass before college, I will probably get an extension. I come across plenty of passages in the orchestral bass repertoire where I will need and extension all the time, so for now I’m just dealing with it. However, at the conservatory level where you are being prepared for the professional level, I would think that’s the time where having an extension would be expected.
Ah… my extension. My teacher, who is now also a luthier and a fantastic baroque bow maker, put my extension on for me. I was in my 2nd or 3rd year of university. It was a year wait because the the local orchestra nearly went under at the time and he wanted to finish making his own bass first (tuned in 5ths) so he could stop making payments on his very nice, but very expensive, Italian instrument and sell it. I chose to get it because I knew my bass and I weren’t parting ways anytime soon (I still have it), the work was cheap by someone I knew, and I really wanted to hit those low notes. It ended up helping my instrument sound a bit better. I have a fingered extension, no machine. Two of us took a summer once way back in the mid 90s to experiment with tuning in 5ths. I went back to 4ths but my fellow student was the better person and stuck with it and it helped his left hand technique a lot.
My first extension experience was actually on a bass of Joel’s at a student summer program where he let me play his bass in the concert. I was young enough I didn’t think anything of it except it was cool to play the teacher’s instrument and it had all these low notes. I had no idea at the time what bass I was playing, let alone how old it was. After the fact it explains why he was so careful and wouldn’t let me carry it.
Anyway, I think that when one searches for their first “real” bass, an extension should be a consideration, but not what makes or breaks the deal. As long as the low notes are covered adequately in a section I wouldn’t be in a rush to go out and put an extension on the bass you have right now or worry about buying a new instrument until the time and finances are right as long as the instrument/bow you have sounds good and allows you to play your best.
It seems like it has become the norm for professional orchestra members to have extensions (although there are certainly exceptions.) They are nice to have when one is in school, at festivals, or other places where you get to play the ‘big repertoire’ for the first time . . . but I know that when I studied with Hal Robinson, he often discouraged his students from using them in auditions, even if they had them. In a section, they can add a lot, but in an audition setting, the goal is often for very clean and accurate playing–and shifting on an extension can be very tough to do at “audition accuracy level.”
Another question for Chris: are you writing an orchestral piece, or a solo or chamber music one? Many basses prefer a different sort of bass for solos and even chamber music, and these often do not have extensions.
And, to further complicate things for composers, we have at least three common types of extensions: fingered, fingered with stops or capos, and mechanical. Certain passages that are easy on mechanical are next to impossible on a fingered one, and certain things are much easier on a capo’d one. So best to consult a bass player if you write any lines that move on or jump to the extension notes.
this is off topic. but to mike, i would seriously consider waiting until you get to college to purchase a new instrument unless you would be working with the same teacher you are with now (or one of equal level)…your new conservatory teacher could help you find a great instrument and point out aspects of the bass itself you may not have considered, especially if you rush into it like the summer before school starts or something. Trust me, I’m in my senior year at a major conservatory (albeit studying jazz) and i know a lot of people that bought a next step up instrument before college, and now are realizing maybe they should have waited a year and got their new teachers advice, and the advice of the other bass faculty. It won’t hurt to have a year with the same instrument you have now unless its really a piece of crap, but you’ll probably be looking at spending 10k at least for your next bass (maybe? that seems to be the starting rate…) and waiting a bit won’t hurt. of course, you probably know all this and are studying with a heavy guy that can help you out now…but just my 2 cents
that said, i’m a senior in conservatory, don’t have an extension and don’t plan on getting it, though i do not perform classical music.
There are many obvious reasons to have extensions, but I think we need to step back and look at the negatives.
Simply put, some basses should not have extensions on them. The resonance is lost all around and a muddled couple of notes are added to the bottom. I’ve seen a few nice basses, particularly student basses, ruined by an overzealous player who thinks he has to have an extension.
There are also issues with the aesthetic and structure. Have you ever seen a bass after the extension has been removed? It’s not pretty. Carving and drilling through the scroll is very invasive, especially if the extension doesn’t work out (for whatever reason) and the scars are left behind. Do I really want that done to my $60K 200 year old bass?
I also personally know of several members of professional orchestras owning both basses with and without extensions. If the extension is so essential, why don’t they have it on all of their basses?
Jason,
I think you should contact a few luthiers and figure out the sonic advantages as well as the problems extensions present.
I know I’ve been discouraged with basses I’ve owned in the past from even thinking about putting an extension. I think not presenting the downsides or rational for not installing an extension will be a great disservice to the bass community, especially younger bassist.
Also, has anyone seen these extension requirements on major auditions? I’ve seen a couple mandating that you must have an extension by the time you start working with the symphony. Is this new?
My first experience with an extension was last spring semester during my first year of college, and although I still don’t own a bass with an extension, I play a bass at my school which has an extension on it (owned by the school). I practiced all summer on my bass at home sans-extension, and hence learned all of my excerpts with the extension parts up the octave (Shostakovich 5, in this case). At the school’s fall orchestra audition, once the screen was taken down after the first round, I was nailed by the adjudicators for having an extension, but not using it (as I did not bring my home bass back to school with me, and instead used the school bass which I had taken 2 weeks to acclimate to). I wish young bass players had more exposure to the mystical extension, but I understand the implications of such and am well aware of the cost (seeing as how I can neither afford it, nor a bass good enough to put such an investment into).
My very first experience with the extension was when I was in Youth Orchestra and the school where we had rehearsals at, had a Mechanical Extension, and it was then that I realized that there had to be a better way to play lower notes when necessary. So I would always ask my teacher if there were a such a thing as a 5 string bass, and he told me was, but he strongly advised against it, and still does to this very day for various reasons. My senior year of high school I bought a 5 string Kay Bass, and after that I never looked back, I’ve since upgraded to an Upton Bass 5 string bass. My reason for avoiding the Extension is because A. with the Mechanical Extension, you have to worry about unlocking the Extension, which would slow me down and if I left the Extension unlocked, then it would rattle and that drove me nuts, and B. with the Fingered Extension, I hated having to grab the back of the scroll just to get the needed notes, and it also hampered my playing, so I went against my teacher’s reasoning and used the 5 string bass and it has been good to me so far.
I’m a semi-pro bass player – I make a bit of money at it, but I don’t rely on it for my income. I haven’t yet got round to getting an extension fitted to my current bass, possibly because I keep on hoping that some day I’ll get enough money together for a five-stringer!
Mind you, I’ve only had my current bass for about 10 years, so it’s still early days.
What I do do, however, is keep the bottom string tuned to a D, and have learned how quickly I can “detune” further to the bottom C. It works, and the bottom C is noticeable at, say, the end of the Strauss Metamorphosen, but I’m still conscious that it’s not “right”, and it doesn’t really work during something a bit louder.
Some day I’ll get an extension, but it’s not looking likely for this year!
I am actually a little surprised that most people on the blog here see it as essential or assumed that most players have one. I would say that only about half of the professional players I see or work with have an extension. This might be partly due to the fact that most of my gigs are either jazz or broadway musicals, but even for the strictly classical gigs that I do it’s often not safe to assume they have an extension.
In fact in the Utah Symphony (I’m from Salt Lake) about half the bassists have one – and often they are lined up so that each stand has one bass with and one bass without an extension. Years ago when I asked David (the principal for the Utah Symphony) about this he said that for one, there was no way he was going to have his bass chopped up just to put on an extension. For two, most pieces don’t get below a D and thus transposing up an octave or tuning down the E string are perfectly acceptable options for bassists who don’t have or don’t want a bass with an extension.
And so I never gave it a second thought after that, but after reading this post I’m tempted to go out and do some shopping. Oops, wallet is still empty. Maybe next year. 🙂
I’ve been watching videos of the Simón BolÃvar Youth Orchestra of Venezuela – Dudamel’s outfit. It looks to me like all 14 of their bassists are playing 5-string instruments. Not a single extension in sight. I’ve always felt that extensions were a bit kludgy and more fragile than they ought to be, and perhaps SBYOV feels like the sturdier 5-string is a better use of scarce resources.
Just how common is the usage of the 5 string bass in the United States? Is it an up and coming kind of trend? As a composer, I don’t remember seeing any with the different orchestras I have worked with.
Good question! It’s much less common than in Europe. I’m not sure of the exact numbers, but my guess would be 10-20% of U.S. bassists play 5 strings.